tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8885023821375900731.post2116060337511566313..comments2023-04-04T04:48:49.542-04:00Comments on Terran Forge: Friday FAQKevinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08891095034954335886noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8885023821375900731.post-5252769508356008862009-07-04T01:04:23.529-04:002009-07-04T01:04:23.529-04:00Deathboon, you bring up an interesting point. I&#...Deathboon, you bring up an interesting point. I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion that Rhino and Landraider doors are decorative accessories since the rear door of a rhino and the assault ramp of a Land Raider do indeed make up the hull of the respective models when closed.<br /><br />When you said that the doors of a drop pod "don't spontaneously not become hull when opened" it sounds like an aggressive or dismissive argument, but perhaps I'm reading too much into it. For the sake of argument I am saying that when the doors on a Land Raider, Rhino or Drop Pod are closed, they can be measured to and treated as hull. Indeed if the vehicle is modeled so the doors cannot open, the only option is to treat them as hull. When said doors open, they do not remain hull and so cannot be measured from for disembarking.<br /><br />Essentially I'm saying that all doors are decorative accessories. I'm going for the lowest common denominator. A player should not gain an advantage for modeling their vehicle with giant doors (even if, like the drop pod it happens to come with giant doors.) Can an ork trukk use its bording plank at full extension to count as the point where the boyz disembark? The trukk doesn't even have doors and when the ramp is up it looks like it's the side hull. I say no. All doors, ramps, bits and bobs are decorative. Measure to the hull of the basic vehicle at it's smallest.Pick A Damn Armyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06333087508205636705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8885023821375900731.post-1869024587572198852009-07-02T11:39:15.135-04:002009-07-02T11:39:15.135-04:00The difference here is that Rhino and landraider d...The difference here is that Rhino and landraider doors, and ramps are decorative accessories, The doors of the Drop pod are a bit different as when closed they make up the exterior sides of a space vessal. The oxford english dictionary defines Hull as the top bottom and sides of a vehicle. by that deffinition the doors are indeed hull, and they don't spontaneously not become hull when opened.Deathboonhttp://www.astronomican.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8885023821375900731.post-67128972424329515322009-06-12T23:53:54.564-04:002009-06-12T23:53:54.564-04:00Thank you Rabbitchild, that's one of the most ...Thank you Rabbitchild, that's one of the most concise arguments I've heard on this one.Blainehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14710028920027344878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8885023821375900731.post-58204679884390292872009-06-12T20:09:48.011-04:002009-06-12T20:09:48.011-04:00Good write up guys, the Goat makes a good point ab...Good write up guys, the Goat makes a good point about fluff vs rules but this example helped clear it up in my mind.<br /><br />Say I model my rhino or land raider so the side doors can fold down. If a squad of marines disembarks from either of those two vehicles, can I measure from the door that's on the ground?<br /><br />No, because a door is not the hull.Pick A Damn Armyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06333087508205636705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8885023821375900731.post-18324811395328425842009-06-12T13:43:37.412-04:002009-06-12T13:43:37.412-04:00Well, goat I understand your reasoning by cost in ...Well, goat I understand your reasoning by cost in points but this is just our opinion. So no bad blood.<br /><br />I cannot imagine how the points cost would cover that extra 4 inches while it is also covering the cost of an AV12 vehicle, one that does not scatter (basically) and its cargo cannot be killed by deep strike mishap. It also creates cover for the marines around it by blocking large lanes of LOS. I cannot imagine the points would also have enough flexibility to include a rather generous movement out of them. <br /><br /><br />For 35 points, you have one sweet ride.Dictatorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04232386662452542050noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8885023821375900731.post-78499755653851712842009-06-12T13:33:01.392-04:002009-06-12T13:33:01.392-04:00It seems like the main argument against measuring ...It seems like the main argument against measuring from the doors is because it gives an advantage (extra 4" or 6" movement) to the Space Marine player because his deepstriking drop pods are not as random as other armies' regular deepstriking units.<br /><br />My response is: <b>Yes that is how it is suppose to be. Buying drop pods for your units costs points.</b> They have special rules saying the marines get to disembark after the drop pod lands. The movement from disembarking is not "extra movement" or "free movement" at all. It is an ability that the Space Marine player paid points to get.<br /><br />Now you might think that the points cost of the drop pod does not accurately reflect its performance in the game. But that is a totally different conversation.the Goathttp://www.battlebarge.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8885023821375900731.post-17054771392688379452009-06-12T13:10:46.155-04:002009-06-12T13:10:46.155-04:00@AoM - Ahh, that makes more sense then. Weird wor...@AoM - Ahh, that makes more sense then. Weird wording in the codex or me just being an idiot there :p<br /><br />@the Goat - The problem with that, as stated by Itkovin, is that you can effectively reduce a scatter distance by (using the aforementioned 4" door length) 6". Seeing as how the most common roll on 2D6 is 7" that means you will, on an average scatter, only go 1". Now RAW this argument is still very open ended as there are good points on both sides, however Alex and I tend to look at things from a "how do we think GW intended this to be?" view point. Obviously neither of us work for GW so we are just making educated guesses at to what we think they intended, really. In tournaments, our final argument would never hold up, but most people play friendly games more often than not where the "that doesn't make sense" argument tends to hold its ground a bit better.<br /><br />Again, though, they're just our opinions on these situations. At the very least I'm hoping someone out there has never come across this problem and now can discuss with their opponent beforehand in case the situation arises!Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08891095034954335886noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8885023821375900731.post-88369646567224872232009-06-12T13:02:57.734-04:002009-06-12T13:02:57.734-04:00hull proper.hull proper.Admiral Draxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07476823273954165890noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8885023821375900731.post-83963871147809479282009-06-12T12:26:11.440-04:002009-06-12T12:26:11.440-04:00Measurements are from the hull. The access points ...Measurements are from the hull. The access points are merely the point from the hull disembarkation takes place and is measured from.onihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00826913158717010235noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8885023821375900731.post-8078540585983592732009-06-12T12:21:14.532-04:002009-06-12T12:21:14.532-04:00I've always measured from the hull because I g...I've always measured from the hull because I glued my doors up. So, if I'm playing my Marines, and use the hull to measure, people like the Goat also playing the same army will use the doors, disenfranchising people like me who use the hull. Since it can be built either way, I figure go with the "worst" way as to not give an advantage to people who built their models one way or another.Blainehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14710028920027344878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8885023821375900731.post-37580183873688556052009-06-12T11:06:58.203-04:002009-06-12T11:06:58.203-04:00well the "are blown" comes from the expl...well the "are blown" comes from the exploding pins that detonate small explosions to force the hinged doors down immediately upon impact. the doors aren't exploding. all of those little circles on the edges of the drop pod doors and door frames are where these mini charges sit.AoMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07834413388942295553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8885023821375900731.post-26918019898208703912009-06-12T10:55:30.185-04:002009-06-12T10:55:30.185-04:00But 6 "extra" inches from anywhere can m...But 6 "extra" inches from anywhere can mitigate any problems caused by an unlucky scatter.<br /><br />To me, it makes more sense to not count the doors "opened" - they are, after all, a modelling option.<br /><br />When the drop pod lands, the space marines are located in the central section of the pod, and jump out. Now unless they can jump 12 metres without any kind of run up, how is it conceivable that they suddenly find themselves beyond the massive hatches that are laying on the floor?<br /><br />I can see it happening if, for example, all the space marines had their feet magnetically clamped to the top of the hatches, so that when they slam down, they're on the end and can just jump off. A ridiculous notion in itself.<br /><br />Assuming the hull is 3in across and, as postulated in the post, the doors are 4in long, you effectively have a 15in deployment diameter from one drop pod. Slightly over the top, in my opinion...<br /><br />Granted, RAW, you probably have a case, in exactly the same way as the Arvus Lighter BS that was going on with those Reaver lists. But thinking logically about it, it just doesn't make sense to me.<br /><br />I'm with you on this guys - all measurements from the hull.Itkovianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05232909071786636360noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8885023821375900731.post-62709882921856527312009-06-12T09:08:44.859-04:002009-06-12T09:08:44.859-04:00Why do you think the doors don't count once th...Why do you think the doors don't count once they are opened? First of all you can't use a fluff sentence, "hatches are blown open" in a rules discussion at all. Furthermore the phrase used in the fluff, "blown open", simply means the doors are opened quickly. It doesn't mean the doors are no longer a part of the vehicle.<br /><br />To me it is clear that you measure the disembarking from the doors because they are part of the access points.<br /><br />There is no "free movement" gained by doing this. The drop pod can land anywhere on the board. So six "extra" inches measured from "anywhere" is meaningless.the Goathttp://www.battlebarge.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8885023821375900731.post-37632362306371285242009-06-12T06:43:07.595-04:002009-06-12T06:43:07.595-04:00Yes - I very much agree with your opinion and conc...Yes - I very much agree with your opinion and conclusion.jabberjabberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15314798958920326898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8885023821375900731.post-31276412976686581802009-06-12T06:42:12.821-04:002009-06-12T06:42:12.821-04:00Nice post, I like both sides of the argument and t...Nice post, I like both sides of the argument and the references from the book to clarify what you're talking about.<br /><br />Looking forward to more of these.Space Hulk Enthusiasthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03522498406401972832noreply@blogger.com